Orams lose Cyprus property court caseIn: Legal Advice|News|Property 20 Jan 2010
The ruling means David and Linda Oram must now demolish the beautiful Lapta villa built with their life savings and pay Apostolides compensation (effectively ground rent) for the time they have occupied the land. The landmark decision could have an impact on Greek Cypriot’s disputing ownership of land in Northern Cyprus and that could be bad news for the estimated 1400 owners in a similar situation to the Orams. Although the decision was made in a European court, it is not clear how the ruling will be enforced in Turkish controlled Northern Cyprus. In 1974 after many years of unrest between Turkey and Greece, Turkish troops intervened after after a political coup took place within then Greek controlled Government of Cyprus. This led to many land owners being displaced from the north and relocating to the south. Many people believe the Oram’s have been used as political pawns between the Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot sides in an attempt to add weight to their bargaining positions in the unification talks currently being held. Greek Cypriot president Demetris Christofias and his Turkish counter-part Mehmet Ali Talat have been meeting regularly for over a year and recently intensified to regular twice weekly sessions in an attempt to find a solution. One of the main stumbling blocks between the two sides in the unification talks has been resolving the issue of property and land rights on the island. In addition to the Greek Cypriots there are also Turkish Cypriots who owned land in the south now occupied. Much of Larnaca airport is built on Turkish Cypriot owned land. For those people with property in Northern Cyprus with ‘exchange deeds’ the advice is don’t panic, each case must be heard on it’s own merit and many Greek Cypriots have no wish to return to their land. If a solution can be found between the two sides it is thought a compensation package would be available to land owners with a claim. Stay up to date with Northern Cyprus latest news, events, competitions and articles from Lincguide, by subscribing to our free service. Click here to activate Related articles on Lincguide you may also be interested in:
Comment Form
   |
22 Responses to Orams lose Cyprus property court case
Sibel Hodge
January 20th, 2010 at 11:35 am
It will be interesting to see exactly how they can comply with the judgement in TRNC. The Orams, sadly, have been the victims of a political witch hunt. This case should have gone through the Property Commission set up by Turkey. I think this will spell the end to the Cyprus Talks. The EU are responsible for this by letting an undevided island join the EU in the first place. Unfortunately, the rest of the world seems to forget the real issues surrounding the "Cyprus Problem." My thoughts go out to the Orams.
Peter Graham
January 20th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Thanks for the comments Sibel, I think there is more to the unification talks than just the Orams case but it certainly wont help things.
My sympathies go to the Orams too, they have been through alot.
Alex
January 20th, 2010 at 11:55 am
And my sympathies go to ALL displaced cypriots… they REALLY have been through a lot in the past AND the present
Peter Graham
January 20th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
I agree with you too Alex, alot of people have suffered from the conflict in Cyprus on both sides.
It is time to move on and make sure history is not repeated.
join our facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/onecyprus
Alex
January 20th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
I will do so. Thank you for the invite
colin21
January 20th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
If Apostolides cannot get the ruling enforced in the TRNC, will he then go back to the UK courts to seek compensation by seizing the Orams' assets in the UK?
GHURKA
January 20th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
GAU have built a dormitory block in Edremit on ex-Greek Church land, they are proposing to build a University in Canterbury Uk -what will they do? Its time for Talat to close talks its impossible to deal with the South.
Luke
January 20th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Our neighbours, refugees from the north of Cyprus when it was invaded and occupied in 1974, live in property that is Turkish Cypriot owned in Larnaka. However, they are on permanent 3 month notice to vacate when the Turkish Cypriot owners move to the ROC to reclaim their property. They have willingly spent their own money to renovate/maintain the property, yet know they have no legal claim to it. A small business in the same town is utilising Turkish Cypriot owned land – for which the business pays a monthly rent to the Guardian of Turkish Cypriot property. That is kept in an account for the rightful owner.
Appropriation of land for 'the common good' is a different issue. As I'm sure UK landowners who have had their land force-purchased by the British government for eg expansion of the British motorway network would tell you.
What is clear is that there are 'moral' and 'immoral' ways of dealing with these situations. No-one wants to be homeless, or to lose land and property their families have owned for generations. Just ask any Palestinian who has lost farmland, businesses, houses etc.
Sibel Hodge
January 21st, 2010 at 3:21 pm
The lawyer for Apostolides has now stated they will be suing tourists for staying in the Dome hotel! http://www.northcyprusforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=4...
Unbelievable. This could be yet another reason that the “Cyprus talks” are doomed to failure.
Emma
January 21st, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Sorry to the Orams, they have been the victims of a political witch hunt. How can you have a country half EU and not the other. So on the south they are prepared to hand over the property to the rightful owners. What about the land they have built on that did not belong to them, do not believe everything you read, this Cyprus situation will never get sorted out, if they want one side EU and not the other, close the borders again
Marie B
January 31st, 2010 at 10:18 pm
It is the inequalities that seem to be a sticking point. All that has been mentioned above about property should have been left until the talks were finished and some kind of conclusion reached. But the unfairness goes alongside the inequality. The Greek Cypriots have issued a list of hotels formerly owned by GC;s or built on land belonging to GC's and telling travel companies not to put people in there. I know for a fact that Onar Village is one of those, built in 1991 on 27 donums of 'exchange large' and half way up a mountain. The owners of the hotel used to have one thousand donum in the south which has bene built on. Why would the GC's want back a mountain side? Why not accept that sometimes it is 'fair exchange' and also accept that by far the larger number of the populationon both sides have rebuilt their lives to the best of their ability and done quite well. Including, Mr Apostolides, who is using the Orams to score points. Why should he want one tenth of the former family land which does not even contain the 'ancestral home'. Let's hope rthe leaders can at least come up with some proper starting points, and let's hope the Orams do NOT get persued in U.K for what is their 'ancestral home'
pete
February 1st, 2010 at 10:14 am
Thanks for the comment Maire, it will be interesting to see what the UN ambassodor will do to help the current talks… he is due in Cyprus today,
Philippios E
March 31st, 2010 at 7:16 pm
But there was never (a formal or informal) exchange that took place, don't you realize that?? The T/c leadership side has tricked T/c's that had land in the free areas in the Republic to "exchange" it with G/c-owned land (proportionate or not) in the North. Was the G/c Owner asked? No. Was the T/c that "got" the G/c's land even the true owner of that land? No.
So what is clearer than this to you people??
Philippios E
March 31st, 2010 at 7:16 pm
The Difference lies in the treatment of Properties in both the Northern Occupied areas by the T/c "Administration" and the Government (in the free areas) of the Republic of Cyprus. The former has taken land that never belonged to them and illegally (without consulting the original owners) re-distributed it to T/c's using Fake newly-issued deeds (of an illegal, non-existent "state"); the latter i.e. the ROC gave to eligible refugee G/c's in terms of long term rental contracts, property belonging to T/c's (a fraction of the Property left behind by the G/c's) BUT (here is the difference) without the G/c having any title deeds or rights on the said T/c Property…..They are regarded as tenants, not owners, the ROC is the Guardian of all T/c Properties and cannot be sold, whereas in the North, the T/c's that got hold of such G/c Property (without the G/c's owner's approval) sold them on to other parties, including EU citizens, deliberately making this more perplexed, involving more & more parties into the argument; the reason is simple; they do not want a single G/c to be able to return to his former house/area etc. This was done to perplex the problem even further.
As an example, Would Anyone accept being the legal owner of a 4bd Luxury Villa in the North and 36 years later on, exchange it for a barn or for nothing except a pat in the back and be friends again??? If you fully understand this argument, then you can realise how Apostolides feels, how every G/c feels and why there is no magic solution to the problem. The Orams or any Orams family should be a lot better if they hadn't been caught in the Turkish trap, did their homework and read the history first and should not have purchased the G/c property in the first place.
PokerNetwork
March 31st, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Hi there, thanks for the comments,
The situation is a very difficult one and i think the Orams were unaware or misled as have been many people regarding property in North Cyprus.
The main objective now has to be finding an answer to the problem that exists now, hopefully the leaders can find a solution.
Philippios E
March 31st, 2010 at 7:28 pm
And to Marie B:
Lets say that you are a Hotel owner in the Falklands, that being YOUR ONLY single asset; Argentine invades and takes over your hotel and you barely make it back alive in the UK. From a businesswoman in your own right, you become a waitress, you have children and a family to support and you have to do 2-3 jobs to make ends meet for the rest of your life.
Many years after you find out that some EU Nationals, even UK nationals, are booking into your Hotel which now has an Argentine "owner" who never sweat to build up that hotel from scratch. And this "owner" is making money out of your hotel and on your back and he calls it "his" hotel. REMEMBER you got No compensation whatsoever, neither from the Argentine nor the UK Government. You only left with the clothes you wore at the time…
Are you feeling enraged at all? May be not because you haven/t been through all these for 36 odd years…but there are about 200,000 G/c's and about 100,000T/c's who have suffered exactly that for more than 35 years now…….all because Turkey decided to invade.
Michael N
April 1st, 2010 at 6:17 am
All this talk tells me one thing: Stay away from buying property in north Cyprus. I was looking at websites that now give guarantees that they do own the land on which the houses are built in northern Cyprus, but how can one be sure?
Better stay out of Cyprus property market, north or south. I do love taking my hols there though… one can find good rental properties online
Sorry that the Orams got in the middle of this and even more sorry for the Greeks that lost their properties to Turkey's invation. They are such nice people
Cleo
April 27th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
I also feel bad for the Orams. But I like what Patricia Winter wrote " The judgment sent a strong message to all those who rushed to buy cheap Greek-Cypriot properties in the north – their status is not only illegal, but they risk being taken to court by the legitimate property owners."http://www.cyprus101.com/blogs/cleo_shahateet/arc...
Christine1820
July 6th, 2010 at 10:39 am
I have zero sympathy for the Orams, they should have known full well that they were entering an occupied territory which was taken by force and by gunpoint that bombs were dropped there forcing and displacing Cypriots in their own home. They were thoughtless and irresponsible in their endevours. As a result they lost what they invested, they should have been careful when dealing with the Northern part since it is not recognized by any international community, nor the UN and the Geneva Convention has been clear about the settelors as illegal persons on lands that belong to others. You want to live with war criminals then you are a criminal. Simply put. Thats why they lost. I'm glad that some justice has occured for the refugees of Cyprus.
A valid solution does not exist when the Northern invaders of Cyprus seek to have legal rights when everything about them is illegal. The did not settle there in a legal manner. You ask the miniorty to have more rights than the majority of real Cypriots who were there in the 70s and were forced out by gunpoint.
Politcal equality is difficult to find when the Cypriots lost their human rights and their homes on they day the Turks invaded. Cyprus is a member of the EU. Norther part of Cyprus is not recognized by the international communities because it is illegally settled and illegally occupied. Even Turkish Cypriots have left. Turkish settelors make so many demands and feel entitled to ask the Cypriots to give up so much. They gave up enough.
Even in May 2001 the European Court of Human Rights judged in the case of Cyprus v. Turkey that with regard to the homes and properties of displaced Greek Cypriots, Turkey was guilty of a continuing violation of Articles 8 and 13 of the European Convention on Human Rights, and Article 1 of Protocol 1.
Peter Graham
July 6th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Thanks for the comments Christine, I think everyone knows the history of what happened in Cyprus and the different interpretations of what really happened and why the island was divided.
I think the Oram's have been used as poitical pawns to a point, and may have been badly advised or did not appreciate the situation to begin with.
The important thing is to move forward and find a solution to the division for the young of Cyprus so they can live together in peace in the future
Alan R
July 8th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
This is a complex issue…(you don't say). My feeling is that having purchased a pre-74 turkish title deed property, the TRNC govt is morally and legally bankrupt by preventing me and my fellow owners from registering their title to the properties that they had bought from a developer.
There is no way forward for buyers – so beware. If the exchange title won't bite you, the TRNC government will anyway…
AwholeLottaRosie
July 9th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Why has the case been left until the villa is complete. Why didn’t the land owner sue the governing body who approved its build? If the land owner owns 10% of the overall plot how is that 10% proved to be where the villa is built.
It’s a case of attack the genuine people (the Brits) who do play by the rules, (Greece is Bankrupt and the people are complaining that the EEC and rest of the world are not prepared to continue to fund them).
If the EEC had followed its rules, as it did with Spain, with the Gibraltar (part of UK) border, then the GC part of Cyprus would not have been allowed to join due to the closed disputed border. The EEC court should have taken that fact into there consideration.
Had the EEC not allowed GC into the EEC then this whole sorry mess of a divided island would probably have been resolved, instead of mess getting worse. With the Cypriot people being able to move back to they lands or not as they wish.
Clearly time to join the UKIP.